Xbox360 vs PS3

[Yuretz 14 347]

Насчет resistance. Посмотрим, как вы будете корчится в муках, играя на dualshock ;)

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]Пропускная способность шины FSB 1066 МГц ( для интеля)составляет 8,5 Гб/с -
это с запасом для новых ЦПУ....
так что ни о каких 50 на 50 речи в X360 не идет
ПОТОЛОК ( и то вряд ли ) 5-6 гб в сек...[/quote]
[quote]
ПОТОЛОК ( и то вряд ли ) 5-6 гб в сек...
[/quote]
хорошо считай.
XBOX 360
CPU------------------GPU
4 GB/s------------[b]18,4 GB/s[/b] ШИНА полностью занята! У моей видеокарты и то больше
PS3
CPU------------------GPU
4 GB/s------------- 11,2GB/s У CPU и GPU свободна на 50%
Т.к. GPU связан с процом то
CPU------------------GPU
4 GB/s------------20 GB/s и у GPU остается еще 11,2GB/s=[b]31,2 GB/s[/b]
[quote]
Насчет resistance. Посмотрим, как вы будете корчится в муках, играя на dualshock
[/quote]
Я понел что dualshock для FPS это извращение, когда поиграл на X360

[PhantomLord 2]

Никто не спорит что это не недостаток
я лишь указываю что он НЕ ТАКОЙ ЗНАЧИТЕЛЬНЫЙ ( особенно с компенсацией в виде Е-ДРАМ)
Но есть и преимущества в виде УМА которое, ( по моему), все таки более значительно ,чем недостаток.....
в Случае Сони реально использовать другие 256 мег очень тяжко ....
хотя реально более 256 мег нужно только для АА ( у 720P) по крайней мере

[Yuretz 14 347]

[quote]
Я понел что dualshock для FPS это извращение, когда поиграл на X360
[/quote]
Зерно исины
По поводу шины памяти и тд. [b]Vina Sora[/b], Надеюсь ты знаешь англицкий)
[url=http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=03]http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=03[/url]
Все проблемы учтены)

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]
Случае Сони реально использовать другие 256 мег очень тяжко ....
хотя реально более 256 мег нужно только для АА ( у 720P) по крайней мере
[/quote]
Если игра будет в 1080p, то антиализинг ей не нужен? :upset: [quote]
По поводу шины памяти и тд. Vina Sora, Надеюсь ты знаешь англицкий)
[url=http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=03]http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=03[/url]
Все проблемы учтены)
[/quote]
Спасибо за ссылку

[Yuretz 14 347]

небольшое уточение по поводу darkness
Вот отрывок из интервью
[quote]
The PS3 will have a content size [and] CPU advantage... The Xbox360 has a slight GPU advantage... I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart.
[/quote]
Все как и ожидалось, у плойки больше места на диске + проц помощнее, у бокса - помощнее видюха. А так, скрины не отличить. Но боксу можно простить, он вышел 1 ГОД (!) назад.

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 5 minutes 52 seconds:[/size][/color]

[quote]
Если игра будет в 1080p, то антиализинг ей не нужен?
[/quote]
Видимо имеелись ввиду разрешения более 720p вообще.

ЗЫ Справедливости ради, энтузиасты проводили подсчеты по поводу пользы от edram. Так вот, полученные значения показывают некоторое падение производительности при 1080p (инфа о кадре не умещается в 10 метров)Что может быть ответом, почему в боксе его нет. НО!!! Вам не пофиг, что его нет :)

[Vina Sora 0]

Кстати, не могу найти полных характеристик как RSX так и G70.
В первую очередь интересует количество шейдерных операций в секунду. Не зря некоторые разработчики говорят, что это шейдерный монстр

[Yuretz 14 347]

Обрати внимание [b]Vina Sora[/b],
[quote]
As the CPU is going to be using Xenos to handle all its memory transfers, the connection between the two has 10.8GB/s of bandwidth both upstream and downstream simultaneously. Additionally the Xenos graphics processor is able to directly lock the cache of the CPU in order to retrieve data directly from it without it having to go to system memory beforehand. The purpose of this is that one (or more, if wanted) of the three CPU cores could be generating very high levels of geometry that the developer doesn't want to, or can't, preserve in the memory footprints available on the system when in use. High-resolution dynamic geometry such as grass, leaves, hair, particles, water droplets and explosion effects are all examples of one type of scenario that the cache locking may be used in.
[/quote]
потом
[quote]
Of course, with 10MB of frame buffer space available this isn't sufficient to fit the entire frame buffer in with 4x FSAA enabled at High Definition resolutions and we'll cover how this is handled later in the article
[/quote]
о чем я сказал выше и последний абзац, про недостатки обех платформ, и то, как их компенсирует edram)
Сейчас, многие бои скажут, что мы не играем в графику. Тогда если игры практически одинаковые (согласитесь, эсклюзивов единицы), зачем платить больше
ЗЫ Молодняк, учись объективности)

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 7 minutes:[/size][/color]

About the graphics

Custom ATI Graphics Processor
500MHz processor

10 MB of embedded DRAM

48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines

Unified shader architecture

Polygon Performance
500 million triangles per second

Pixel Fill Rate
16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA

Shader Performance
48 billion shader operations per second
У сони?

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]
As the CPU is going to be using Xenos to handle all its memory transfers, the connection between the two has 10.8GB/s of bandwidth both upstream and downstream simultaneously. Additionally the Xenos graphics processor is able to directly lock the cache of the CPU in order to retrieve data directly from it without it having to go to system memory beforehand. The purpose of this is that one (or more, if wanted) of the [b]three CPU cores could be generating very high levels of geometry[/b] that the developer doesn't want to, or can't, preserve in the memory footprints available on the system when in use. High-resolution dynamic geometry such as grass, leaves, hair, particles, water droplets and explosion effects are all examples of one type of scenario that the cache locking may be used in.
[/quote]

Very good.

[Yuretz 14 347]

данные wikipedia
зы3 74.8 billion shader operations per second (100 billion with CPU)
круглый 120 billion shader operations per second

48 не знаю откуда взялось)
а, отсюда) [url=http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/content/view/1403/150/]http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/content/view/1403/150/[/url]
Не могу найти, какого года инфа(

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 1 minute 12 seconds:[/size][/color]

[quote]
Very good.
[/quote]
угу)

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 1 minute 12 seconds:[/size][/color]

согласись, сайт достаточно объективный и непредвзятый. Верить можно. Что подтверждает отрывок из интервью

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]данные wikipedia
зы3 74.8 billion shader operations per second (100 billion with CPU)
круглый 120 billion shader operations per second[/quote]
Не официальные. Сами разрабы не имеют право разглашать инфу о RSX (странно? может слух о даунгрейте вовсе не слух)
[quote]48 не знаю откуда взялось)[/quote]
48 что ты имел ввиду

[Yuretz 14 347]

[quote]
48 что ты имел ввиду
[/quote]
вот отсюда [url=http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/content/view/1403/150/]http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/content/view/1403/150/[/url]
[quote]
Shader Performance
48 billion shader operations per second
У сони?
[/quote]

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 10 minutes 10 seconds:[/size][/color]

интересный отрывок из интервью с Valve про Half-Life 2. Разрабы говорят, что размер edram для них не важен и AA будет на без использования тайлов (когда кадр разбивается на части и каждая рендериться отдельно)
[quote]
Incase you're answering questions about engine technology on the next-gen consoles, I was wondering if Source on the XB360 will use tiling to fit into the 10mb of eDRAM for 4x A.A.?

Valve response

We're doing our AA a different way - tiling is not a very good way to spend perf to get visual quality
[/quote]
Как всегда, главное прямые руки)

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 1 minute 10 seconds:[/size][/color]

[b]Vina Sora[/b], ветка, вообще интересная
[url=http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32152]http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32152[/url]

[Vina Sora 0]

Да характеристики вижу не в пользу PS3. Хотя в RSX на 100 лимонов транзисторов больше чем у Xenos GPU. Осталось найти им применение

[Yuretz 14 347]

[quote]The RSX being a G80 Derivative is very possible.

I know it may sound a little far fetched but let me explain how & why I believe that the RSX is a lot more than what was on the E3 2005 spec sheet.

Sony has repeatedly said that they want to build True Nextgen System that will last 10 years – i.e. high long term investment plan.

Sony spent silly amounts of money to create a NextGen CPU
Sony spent loadsa money to create a NextGen BluRay Media
Sony spent bags of money to get NextGen HDMI1.3 Connectivity

Sony did not spent wads of money to get yesterdays NV47 core glued to Flexio.

The N47 GPU part does not fit at all with the selection of other truly NextGen components. There is nothing NextGen about it today & hardly back in spring.

Having followed every piece of PS3 news for over a year I took a step back to look at the whole history of events that unfolded pre E3 2005 to post E3 2006.

If you do this you will realise something very apparent that we fail to notice when we look at the daily picture - Sony NEVER had a Spring 06 release in mind.
It was impossible even if they had wanted to consider it as they were clearly way behind on there PS3 roadmap with too many milestones still to cover.

Sony have made so many changes between spring & now that it makes you realise spring was never meant to be. The PS3 has evolved & taken so much more shape since its expected release date, that it really does look like Fall 06 was always the intended release date. Even the dev kits seem to be in good supply with a few months to go.

Sony did not fudge up there project management by this much.
A reschedule to fall 06 for release was not just because of BluRay or HDMI as otherwise everything else could have been polished & ready to go apart from these components. Instead lots of things were & are still being changed or completed e.g. controller, case, OS (XMB/Internet browser/Live), RSX chips apparently rolling out just recently & not pre spring if they were to make it into a console.

I believe Sony has been masterfully applying Sun Tzu - The Art of War in there business.

They always intended to release PS3 around Fall 06.
They bought time with loyal fans by selling them not so far Spring 06 release date & they did a great job – I’m still here !

I believe the RSX figures they gave from NVIDIA were arbitrary for a top GPU that was going to hit around Spring 06 (7800). This was a strategic move by Sony to keep the fans satisfied, media in frenzied & MOST importantly to force there competitors to respond & bare there console secrets - XBOX360 GPU specs etc.
It was executed brilliantly!

It would have been utterly stupid business sense for Sony to reveal the true RSX spec’s & give the competition the heads up. Especially knowing the XBOX360 had not been released yet & was still possible to changes. Better to lull the competition into false security.

Noticed how RSX specs disappeared from all Sony presentations?
The values they gave at E3 05 served there temporary purpose. The real values will probably be divulged when they are good & ready to strike a blow.

Sony have since had plenty of time to weigh up the competition & make changes where necessary.. Motion controller.. Free online offering.. Standard HD etc
To date they have addressed individual strengths in there rivals console & responded by making the necessary changes to better if not equal them.
Sony is well aware of the XBOX360’s 2 strengths – Live & Xenos & they will surely counter attack them also.

It’s clear that Sony has lot riding on the success of PS3 due to the massive investment made. They seem to be deadly serious to win this war & they will not Microsoft’s XBOX360 get away with it.

The RSX CANNOT be what was on paper at E3 05.
That is plainly illogical if you apply Sony’s though of mind to date.

I believe they will deliver some kind of GPU that will deliver all they spoke of at E3 05 & more. Sony will definitely try to better Xenos without a shadow of doubt. They will have been listening to all the positives & negatives by developers on Xenos so that they can weigh it up against the RSX & make changes if need be.

First of all I was thinking like many hopefuls that it’s a custom built NVIDIA 7800/7900 derivative. But than the other day I came across details of a new NVIDIA GPU – The G80.

If we had a user requirements document for the RSX - the G80 would fit it like a glove.


-G80 will be most powerful GPU out when released & agree with what Sony/NVIDIA proclaimed of RSX

-G80 is DX10 & Shader Model 4 compliant which will increase its life span & make Sony’s ambitious 10 years for PS3 more realistic

-G80 does not use a Unified Processor like RSX even though it is DX10.All DX10 cards are supposed to use Unified Processors according to MS spec. Seems they were developing more for a system like PS3 (non unified processor reuirement) than Vista.

-G80 first NVIDIA GPU to support in built HDCP (Must for HD BluRay Movies over HDMI) as well as HDMI (wish I could confirm it was HDMI 1.3)

-G80 uses GDDR4 memory

Another possible way to look at the G80 is that it is the end product of NVIDIA's customisation that went into a G70 core to make the RSX. G80 is the RSX + more for the PC market & RSX is the custom G80 for the PS3

You have to admit that really does tally up with what we were sold as RSX.
In fact it is a more similar to the Xenos in design but with full DX10 + Shader model 4 support and no Unified Processor. Sony new back at E305 that the Xenos was part DX10 compliant. They knew than what they were up against & would not have settled for anything inferior. I’m sure they are aware of he value of investing in a DX10 Shader 4 card if they wanted it to last in there console for a decade. Would they really settle for DX9 GPU knowing what was around the corner (MS Vista pushing for DX10) ?

Maybe MS did go to NVIDIA first for Xenos but they were not able to deliver a Unified Processor GPU in time & cost terms. I believe MS have personal interests in Unified Processor architecture as it is part of Vista’s DX10 GPU requirement. It makes sense that MS would have wanted to have similar GPU’s in Vista & XBOX360 to make PC port easier & cross develop with XNA.

Sony on the other hand did not have requirements for Unified Processor & were able to contract NVIDIA to build RSX with DX10 + Shader 4.

The G80 will most definitely SMOKE the Xenos & outlast it with full its full DX10 & shader model 4 support. This truly is a GPU that you can see worthy of being in the PS3 with the CELL, BluRay & HDMI1.3. Not very hard to picture at all.

Most likely we will not end up with the G80 but instead some kind of custom derivative that shares its feature set & integrates well into the PS3.

Sony could put all of my logic & reasoning down the pan & the RSX turn out to be nothing like the G80 but I’m 100% convinced at worst case scenario it will not have the E305 spec’s. It will most definitely be more than we were told.[/quote]

NVIDIA CEO : Postponing the PS3 was a master stroke

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 3 minutes 54 seconds:[/size][/color]

ище интересная ветка, вообще сайт супер
[url=http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32337]http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32337[/url]

[Vina Sora 0]

А ЭТО откуда. Бред какойто, но кое-что логично. Ждем TGS там будет все известно

[Yuretz 14 347]

и ответ ATI
[url=http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=637174]http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=637174[/url]

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 1 minute 28 seconds:[/size][/color]

[url=http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=27123]http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=27123[/url]
WOW!!А парень зажег. Ангологоворящим сонибоям читать всем)

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 47 seconds:[/size][/color]

[quote]
А ЭТО откуда.
[/quote]
вроде как NVIDIA CEO

[Molodnyak 281]

[quote name="Yuretz"]Насчет resistance. Посмотрим, как вы будете корчится в муках, играя на dualshock ;)[/quote]
Ну не на Дуалшок, а на джойстике с гироскопами, который, как выяснилось парой месяцев назад, будет реагировать не только на наклоны, но и на перемешение в пространстве :razz:
А вы с бандуриной своей корчтесь в Хало3, ага :razz:

[Vina Sora 0]

Вот ответ по Crysis
[quote]
OMG Look at Crysis!!!:
Yeah, this game got its own section due to how much it has annoys me on these forums. It is always being compared to the abilities of the next generation consoles processing abilities as it if is some unattainable goal for consoles.

Guess what is responsible for those graphics? I’ve already said it and you probably already know it if you’ve read and understood everything I wrote so far – top end graphics cards. Can the RSX beat it alone? I might lie to you and say [b]“yeah it can do that” and fail to mention the RSX would likely be running at 5 frames per second if it did - as would any comparable PC graphics card would too.[/b] But I’d rather try to be a bit more honest than what nVidia would tell you. In order for the Playstation 3 to match or surpass those visuals, [b]the Cell would have to be used to handle some of the parts of the 3D rendering pipeline to speed up rendering through the RSX to levels which could probably even exceed what Crysis looks like.[/b] Of course, at some point in the future when GeForce 8950GTX-SLIs come out, you could probably run Crysis at ridiculously high 16xAA, 16xAF, FP32 HDR and what have you settings, but those are just polish related visuals, not the baseline visuals that are a large determinant of what makes games look good.

Short story is that you won’t be disappointed with the Playstation 3’s visuals. It will be quickly outdone by PC graphics cards in terms of the nitty gritty technical settings like AA, HDR, AF, and shader model version whatever. Don’t let that discourage you because artists and improved techniques on the [b]Cell + RSX will make the improvement of Playstation 3 visuals[/b] keep up even if it isn’t displaying more polygons with higher settings.[/quote]
Итог-Все зависит от разработчиков

[Yuretz 14 347]

[quote]
Ну не на Дуалшок, а на джойстике с гироскопами, который, как выяснилось парой месяцев назад, будет реагировать не только на наклоны, но и на перемешение в пространстве
[/quote]
без комментариев. значит 15 лет... или меньше. Иди играй в машинки, мальчик

[color=green][size=75]Posted after 2 minutes 43 seconds:[/size][/color]

[quote]
Итог-Все зависит от разработчиков
[/quote]
Согласен Прямые руки - клю к успеху) А чьи слова, кстати?

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]
и ответ ATI
[url=http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=637174]http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=637174[/url]
[/quote]
Наличие универсальных шейдерных процессоров и DirectX 10 будет увеличивать мощь бокса. Но незабываем про OpenGl ES и Cell для PS3
и этот слух [url]http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32337[/url], который говорит что консольные войны еще в переди.
Если учесть этот слух то разрабы недавно получили финальный RSX.
Ждем новых роликов.

[Yuretz 14 347]

[quote]
Ждем новых роликов.
[/quote]
Ждем новых игр)

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]
Ждем новых игр)
[/quote]
:D Да. Но до TGS будет тишина

[PhantomLord 2]

не удивлюсь если в RSX будет 32 Пконвеера и "всего" 16 вершинных ибо вершины будет целл помогать рассчитывать...а место на кристалле надо экономить...

[Vina Sora 0]

[quote]
не удивлюсь если в RSX будет 32 Пконвеера и "всего" 16 вершинных ибо вершины будет целл помогать рассчитывать...а место на кристалле надо экономить..
[/quote]
Еще вспомните, что после E305 SONY дала NVidia 30млн$(точно не помню). Но на что никто незнает. Может на доработка RSX.

[Yuretz 14 347]

[quote]
Еще вспомните, что после E305
[/quote]
лучше не вспоминать)